## Transcript of the conversation between the Managing Director and Joseph Joyce, M. Margaret Ball Professor of International Relations, Department of Economics at Wellesley College, on A New Bretton Woods–Cooperation Towards a Resilient, Sustainable, and Inclusive World

_IMF News, January 27, 2021_

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## Bibliographic details
- Published: January 27, 2021

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### Overview
- Event: Conversation at the Madeleine Korbel Albright Institute for Global Affairs.
- Date: January 27, 2021.
- Principal speakers: Kristalina Georgieva (Managing Director, IMF) and Professor Joe Joyce (M. Margaret Ball Professor of International Relations, Wellesley College).
- Context: Discussion on whether a “new Bretton Woods” is needed and how global institutions like the IMF should evolve to address contemporary global challenges.

### Institutional role, mandate, and evolution
- Core assertions:
  - Global institutions are needed because many problems are global or repeat across countries; institutions provide transmission lines for learning and policy coordination.
  - Institutions must “lean towards the problems of tomorrow” rather than remain focused on yesterday’s problems.
  - Mandates and governance must evolve with the changing world; governance change is among the toughest challenges due to tradition and risk of lowest‑common‑denominator outcomes.
- Institutional strengths highlighted for the IMF:
  - “Holding a hand on the pulse of the economy” at national, regional, and global levels.
  - Crisis financing capacity and convening power.
  - Capacity development programs focused on fiscal matters, data systems, and spending priorities.

### Climate change — analytics, framework, and gaps
- Conceptual framework for IMF engagement on climate (three pillars):
  - Send the right signal for decarbonization (e.g., carbon pricing).
  - Define public support for the shift to a new climate economy (infrastructure, skills).
  - Promote a just transition for those negatively impacted.
- Institutional actions and needs:
  - IMF integrating climate into surveillance and policy advice on scale.
  - IMF building capacity: “rapidly hiring climate economists” and creating skill‑upgrade programs for staff.
  - Georgieva’s background: PhD on environmental policy and use of economic incentives for environmental change.
- Strategic timing and opportunity:
  - 2021 identified as a “key year” for climate transformation.
  - Political context noted: “yesterday, President Biden took over” and his third signature was on rejoining the Paris Agreement; UK and Italy leading G‑20 and G‑7 and hosting COP26.

### Inequality and distributional concerns
- Positioning:
  - Inequality is both an ethical/moral problem and an economic problem (it “reduces productivity, [and] impacts negatively growth”).
  - IMF has advanced in talking about inequality and gender and is integrating these issues into policy advice.
- Policy implications:
  - Revamp tax policies toward more redistributive systems.
  - Reshape public spending to build resilience in people (education, health, social protection), plants (climate‑resilient infrastructure), and financial systems.

### Pandemic crisis response and assessment metrics
- IMF pandemic financing and reach:
  - “We have funded some $105 billion, since the beginning of the pandemic, benefitting 83 countries; 49 of these 83 countries are low‑income countries.”
- Assessment metrics used by the IMF:
  - Accuracy of analysis and policy advice.
  - Adaptation of the surveillance function (example: stopping traditional bilateral surveillance early in the crisis).
  - Policy Action Tracker used for cross‑country transmission of measures; “194 countries are covered by this Policy Action Tracker.”
  - Questions for financial assistance: 1) Are funds provided where most needed? 2) Do funds reach those most in need (e.g., paying doctors and nurses, keeping clinics functioning)?
  - Post‑pandemic audits agreed with most countries to ensure transparency in use of IMF funds.
- Analogy: 2020 described as “the first half of the game”; 2021 characterized as “the second half,” expected to be more complicated and requiring continued calibration.

### Structural transformations, sectoral winners/losers, and labor implications
- Sectors likely to prosper:
  - Digital and tech broadly (digital commerce, digital services, digital currencies).
  - Automation‑based manufacturing.
  - Some parts of food production and related services.
- Sectors likely to contract or face long recovery:
  - Contact‑dependent industries (restaurants, travel, conventional tourism).
- Distributional impacts:
  - “Low‑skilled workers, women, young people” are most severely impacted.
  - Concern about a K‑shaped recovery leading to divergence across and within countries; risk of reversing decades of convergence between high‑income and low‑income countries.
- Education and skills policy implications:
  - Emphasis on lifelong learning and “learning to learn.”
  - Greater need for vocational training and employer participation in skill enhancement.
  - Liberal arts valued for adaptability and fostering learning skills.

### Governance, representation, and legitimacy of the IMF
- Representation progress and gaps:
  - Emerging markets (including BRICS) have increased shareholding and now appear in top shareholder positions, but shares still do not mirror the world economy and low‑income countries remain underrepresented.
  - IMF Board representation example: Africa has “only two chairs out of 24” at the IMF Board; at the World Bank Africa has “three chairs.”
- Quota/shareholding process:
  - Periodic quota reviews determine shareholding; the 15th review “didn’t deliver quite on the expectations”; the 16th review is forthcoming and emphasized as critical.
- Leadership selection:
  - Tradition has been “slightly bended in the right direction”; Georgieva notes her election as a European from an emerging market was cheered by emerging markets.
- Gender representation:
  - Increase in women in senior positions; directors raised from “25 percent” to “40‑plus percent”; first time a woman is leading the Fund’s management and the new chair of the IMFC is Minister Magdelena Andersson of Sweden.

### New Bretton Woods moment — reconstruction vs. new institutions
- Georgieva’s framing:
  - The world faces a “new Bretton Woods moment” in need of reconstruction and transformation (health crisis, greener economies, digital inclusion, preventing divergence).
  - She argues institutions like the IMF and World Bank have evolved and been essential in averting deeper economic depression during the pandemic.
- Position on creating new institutions:
  - Georgieva does not advocate creating entirely new institutions; she supports evolving existing institutions and enhancing cooperation among multiple institutions to meet current priorities.
- Central priorities for institutions:
  - Bring the health crisis to an end everywhere.
  - Recover and transform economies for the future (green, digital, fair).
  - Prevent divergence between rich and poor people and countries.

### Key statistics and specific figures preserved exactly as stated
- $105 billion funded since the beginning of the pandemic, benefiting 83 countries; 49 of these 83 are low‑income countries.
- 194 countries are covered by the Policy Action Tracker.
- IMF Board example: Africa has only two chairs out of 24; World Bank: Africa has three chairs.
- Periodicity and history references: 76 years' history; 44 representatives at Bretton Woods.
- Global fiscal/monetary response referenced as “$20 trillion” put under the world economy.

### Selected policy recommendations and action items (as articulated)
- For the IMF and similar institutions:
  - Do the right thing, not the easy thing; evolve mandates and governance to match changing global challenges.
  - Integrate climate and inequality into surveillance and policy advice at scale.
  - Build internal capacity (e.g., hire climate economists; staff skill upgrades).
  - Use policy tools to create fiscal space for climate transitions and support a just transition for affected groups.
  - Maintain and strengthen financial assistance targeted to the most vulnerable, with post‑pandemic audits for transparency.
  - Push for quota/shareholding reform (16th review) to improve representation and legitimacy.
- For governments and national policies:
  - Recalibrate tax systems toward greater redistribution where appropriate.
  - Reorient public spending to build resilience in people, infrastructure, and financial systems.
  - Invest in lifelong learning, vocational training, and employer contributions to skill development.
  - Use recovery spending to accelerate climate‑aligned investments that also generate jobs (reforestation, land restoration, climate‑resilient infrastructure).

*Transcript of the conversation between the Managing Director and Joseph Joyce, M. Margaret Ball Professor of International Relations, Department of Economics at Wellesley College, on A New Bretton Woods–Cooperation Towards a Resilient, Sustainable, and Inclusive World (January 27, 2021).*

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## References

- [https://www.imf.org/en/about/senior-officials/bios/kristalina-georgieva](https://www.imf.org/en/about/senior-officials/bios/kristalina-georgieva)
- [Bulgaria and the IMF](http://www.imf.org/external/country/BGR/index.htm)
- [IMF-World Bank Debt Sustainability Framework for Low-Income Countries -- A Factsheet](https://www.imf.org/en/about/factsheets/sheets/2023/imf-world-bank-debt-sustainability-framework-for-low-income-countries)
- [IMF Surveillance -- A Factsheet](https://www.imf.org/en/about/factsheets/imf-surveillance)
- [Transcripts](https://www.imf.org/en/news/searchnews)
- [PRESS CENTER](http://presscenter.imf.org/)
- [https://www.imf.org/en/home](https://www.imf.org/en/home)

_Source: https://www.imf.org/en/news/articles/2021/01/21/tc012121-md-conversation-with-joseph-joyce_