F&D:
As finance minister you introduced difficult budgetary reforms and
ultimately oversaw the longest phase of economic growth in South
Africa. What advice do you have for countries facing hard choices?
TM:
In the Constitution, members of the Cabinet are accountable collectively
and individually to Parliament. The budget represents that collective
responsibility, so it was my job as finance minister to persuade the
Cabinet that we needed to reduce the debt-to-GDP ratio. We set up technical
committees in the Treasury inviting other departments to explain their
spending needs and introduced a medium-term expenditure framework to
improve planning. Months in advance of budget day, we’d table a budget
policy statement in Parliament to set the size of the spending envelope, in
line with government priorities. In a way, the system was designed to
compel us to live within our means—that was our strength. We could agree on
how to run things because people wanted to be part of delivering democracy.
That attitude doesn’t exist anymore. The decade under Jacob Zuma wasn’t
just “lost” as though everything was static. We regressed. The Treasury was
considered too powerful, so the president tried to take it apart. That
weakening has produced the outcomes we now have. The ability to collect
taxes has been weakened and our overall allocative efficiency destroyed by
the extent of corruption. It may be the same party in power, but it’s a
very different country.
F&D:
South Africa emerged from international isolation to become one of the
world’s most promising emerging markets, but in recent years it has
underperformed relative to its peers. What’s holding it back?
TM:
Probably 60 percent of members of the trade union federation, COSATU, are
public servants. If you compare the pay scales for public servants in South
Africa with their emerging market peers at PPP [purchasing power parity]
averages, they do relatively well. But that takes state resources off the
table.
Many people who worked at the Treasury when I was minister weren’t there
because they were paid extraordinarily well. There was an esprit de corps
that compelled them to deliver—that is how you drive change. When together
you take responsibility and can agree on an agenda that is not
ideologically driven, you’ve got institutions that can outlive ministers.
Ideological purity is the biggest retardant to transformation in South
Africa.
F&D:
The country has long struggled with inequality. What can be done
differently?
TM:
Providing a social safety net is of paramount importance—it’s very broken
in South Africa—and that means constantly reexamining what constitutes a
“social wage.” It’s more than just unemployment benefits. It’s about
whether your welfare system works for people who need it the most. It’s
about the quality of education and health care, and whether people have
access to clean water, sanitation, and refuse collection.
A high school student who lives in an informal settlement called Kosovo
graduated last year with 99 percent for mathematics and 100 percent for
physics. Kosovo has the highest homicide rate in the country. Bullets flew
past his shack every night as he studied. You cannot deal with issues of
equality without changing the environment these students live in. Social
capital is not easily defined, but you can see it in the confidence of
young people coming out of an education system that works—it empowers them
to do all kinds of things.
F&D:
You estimate a funding gap of about $100 billion annually over the next
three years for Africa’s pandemic response. How do countries cover the
shortfall?
TM:
As envoys we were tasked with finding a solution for what still is a major
risk—rising debt service costs. The obvious place to start was with the IMF
and the G20. That is how the Debt Service Suspension Initiative was born.
Of the more than $12 billion that was to be deferred, only about $5 billion
has been released. It’s a drop in the ocean.
When Lehman Brothers collapsed, the G20 convened for the first time ever at
the heads-of-state level in October 2008. By April 2009, a proposal for an
SDR [special drawing right] allocation was agreed. The world today needs
the same quality of leadership. We need a new SDR allocation and a
discussion on ways to deploy unused SDRs to boost liquidity for low-income
as well as struggling middle-income countries.
F&D:
Reflecting on past debt relief efforts, what should we bear in mind
today?
TM:
At some point there will need to be discussions on debt reduction, not
unlike the joint IMF–World Bank debt relief initiative launched in 1996.
Leaving aside the debate on whether the conditions set were viable or not,
a number of countries benefited. The difference between then and now is
that many more developing countries have access to capital markets. There
are countries who desperately need debt relief but are afraid that once
they apply, their credit rating will be downgraded—it’s a Catch-22.
F&D:
You grew up in a segregated city on the wrong side of the tracks—a
reality that would shape your career in Cape Town’s resistance
movement, eventually landing you in jail. What kept you going during
the struggle, and how did you stay grounded when you transitioned to
the Cabinet?
TM:
I wouldn’t let circumstances control me. My mother was always present in my
life when I was going through anything big. I said at her funeral last year
that whenever I presented the budget, I would always look for her in the
audience. What mattered to me most was knowing whether she understood what
I was saying. I can talk “economics,” but what does it matter unless people
whose lives are affected understand what it means for them? That’s what’s
important in life—people. You can’t let them down.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.